151 responses so far ↓

• 1 jdb // Mar 3, 2010 at 11:56 pm

  I thought Aaron's Dry Cleaners was moving around the corner to 7th. Did that not happen?

• 2 Name // Mar 4, 2010 at 12:17 am

  I am opposed to this store based solely on their signage: “Discount Cigarette, Beer, Wine”. Too many of these stores focus on selling fortified wine and beer, and become magnets for crime, graffiti, noise and other problems. No neighborhood wants more of that.

  There are too many families with kids, and schools nearby. Stores like these are just looking to make easy money on high margin items like alcohol and cigarettes, and offer little benefit to the community; in fact the impact is often negative.

  Besides, there is little or no market here for what they'll be selling.

• 3 QueenAnneView // Mar 4, 2010 at 12:19 am

  Hi jdb!

  I just confirmed that Aaron's did in fact move to 2402 7th Ave W. Thanks for the tip! I've made the correction to the story.

  Thea

• 4 Mike // Mar 4, 2010 at 12:45 am

  Which is it? Easy money? Or no market?

  Either there's an unserved demand for beer and cigarettes in this neighborhood, or the place will be out of business in a few months.

  !! But won't someone think of the children!?! Give me a break.

• 5 JT28880 // Mar 4, 2010 at 12:59 am

  There are a lot of other people that live on QA that don't have childen and wouldn't mind having a close place to go and buy needed goods. As long as they obey the laws and don't become a public nuisance they should be able to operate a business.

  If you want your cookie cutter neighborhoods go to the eastside. Let's make the area great for everone not just familes.

• 6 Name // Mar 4, 2010 at 1:08 am

  Wow. This is the “whitest” comment I've ever seen here. It's like a hobo camp (or worse yet – “bad people who are not my race or class”) is going to be set up next to the store as soon as it opens.

  Don't worry, the “bad elements” won't trek all the way to Upper Queen Anne to get their beer and cigarettes all before 9. I think your precious little darlings will be safe.

• 7 name // Mar 4, 2010 at 1:18 am

  What a bunch of hypocrites!

  If they're really concerned about alcohol and cigarette sales than they should target Ken's Market just a stones throw west. Have you ever seen the shelf space that store dedicates to booze!!?? There are miles of it! What sort of “message” are they sending?

  Or is it OK at Ken's because they also sell overpriced, organic crap that yuppies love?

  How about Bustle? They just opened within the last year and one of the first things I noticed was a huge placard placed DIRECTLY ON THE SIDEWALK advertising wine and “premium beers” for sale. The kids HAVE TO LITERALLY WALK AROUND that sign every single day and it's literally kitty corner from Coe Elmentary.

  The outrage about the new market is racist. The yuppies would have been fine with a specialty wine shop but god forbid a shop that sells alcohol, in affordable fashion, to the average working man- who most likely is not white.

  I hope the store stays.

• 8 Concerned Hipster // Mar 4, 2010 at 1:29 am

  I don't know about “average working man= not white,” but about the specialty wine shop- isn't there in fact one in the rear of A&J's/Wild Salmon? I don't remember for sure because I'm not much of a drinker, but I sure don't remember anyone bitching about it. Maybe they need bigger signage.

• 9 tc // Mar 4, 2010 at 1:46 am

  I am really disturbed by the complaints about this store. The concerns do seem rather snobbish. This is a city, an urban environment. Children will not be traumatized by seeing advertisements for beer and cigarettes, which are all over the city. The best neighborhoods are those that embrace small businesses of all kinds. And complaining about a 9pm closing time is especially disturbing. It's 9pm! Most adults are still up and about at that time, and I bet there are a lot of people — families included — who would appreciate having a neighborhood store open a bit later to stop in and pick up a few things after work.

• 10 name // Mar 4, 2010 at 1:46 am

  My point about the avergae working man not being white on QA is in reference to that fact that I have yet to see ONE landscaper working up on the hill who is not latin.

  Sure,”they” can cut your grass and trim your hedges but nooooooo way should they have a shop that caters to their unique socio economic status.

  “Let them go to the bottom of the hill for their Mad Dog 20/20!” , I can hear the housewives crying.

  That there's actually organized ressistance to this, under the guise of “protecting the children,” is 100% laughable.

  Frankly, I'd be embarassed to have my name tethered to such a racist movement.

• 11 doesmyopinioncount // Mar 4, 2010 at 2:27 am

  Thank goodness this place is opening. I hope they stay open later than 9:00 though. It would be nice to have a place a little closer than 7-11 after 10:00 when Ken's closes. These complainers are no better than the “Moral Majority” with their myopic NIMBY my-lifestyle-is-the-only-one-allowed crap

• 12 Thatgirlkelly // Mar 4, 2010 at 2:54 am

  Seriously? Would you feel the same if it was over priced cigars and wine?

• 13 JT28880 // Mar 4, 2010 at 3:38 am

  I bet these concerned individuals send there kids to private school too. You can't shelter them from real life forever….

• 14 teakake // Mar 4, 2010 at 7:56 am

  I've been reading this blog for well over a year and I've been a resident of QA for about five years. I'm not normally one to throw in my comments but like many of the people who've already commented, the complaints against this store really piss me off. I live four blocks from 5 corners and I'm actually quite happy that this place is opening. I have one infant child who eventually will be walking past this store on a regular basis. While I think the signage is a bit obnoxious in that it's a bit loud, I don't see it as being problematic in any way. If you want sanitized neighborhoods then there are plenty of houses for sale on the east side.

  The suggestion that these stores will attract problems is utterly ridiculous. I find it rather ludicrous that people will trek up the hill so they can loiter in front of the store, drinking cheap beer and smoking discounted cigarettes.

  I love the fact we're going to have another late-night, nearby shopping option.

• 15 aljoseattle // Mar 4, 2010 at 4:03 pm

  Boy some parents!

  I think the signs are a little loud but that is personal preference. Obviously, there is another person who likes them or they wouldn't be the signage of choice for the store.

  Others here have pointed out the other stores that sell the same product but somehow are more acceptable.

  What frustrates me is this appears to be criticism from the “The world revolves around me and my kid.” You see them walking down the Avenue. They don’t move to one side of the walk with their stroller – “I have my child and she is special, I’m not going to share the sidewalk.” Or, “I’m crossing the street with my kid and they can take as much time as she wants. They’re special.” Talk about parents sending the wrong message to their kids.

  Let’s see what the store is like. Isn’t how the store operates and what it brings to the neighborhood the important thing? Neighborhood stores can be cool.

  I looked to my parents for my values not signs on stores. People take some responsibility and raise you kid with the proper values, learn some manners yourself and teach those to your children..

• 16 DeckerFamily // Mar 4, 2010 at 4:50 pm

  There sure are a lot of people willing to put their opinions out there but not their names.

  I'm opposed to the signage. It's garish. If they had been subtle about their wares (DISCOUNT CIGARETTES! WINE! BEER! Oh, and GROCERIES!) from the get-go, I don't think people would have even noticed. They pretty much shot themselves in the foot by putting giant signs in the windows advertising things that make many people uncomfortable.

  When I think Bustle, I think “neighborhood cafe.” When I think Ken's, I think “neighborhood grocery store I've been going to for 20 years” When I think 5 Corners Market, I think “DISCOUNT CIGARETTES! WINE! BEER!” The grocery part doesn't even enter my mind, because it seems almost like an afterthought for them.

  For what it's worth, this morning the signs for DISCOUNT CIGARETTES and WINE / BEER were covered up by green paper/material. If only they'd been more subtle in the first place …

  P.S. To “Name” who put out this comment:
  “Sure,”they” can cut your grass and trim your hedges but nooooooo way should they have a shop that caters to their unique socio economic status.

  “Let them go to the bottom of the hill for their Mad Dog 20/20!” , I can hear the housewives crying.”

  WOW. “They” have “unique socioeconomic (one word) status” where “they” need a store to “cater” to their post-weed-pulling “Mad Dog 20/20″ fix? Just … WOW.

• 17 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:03 pm

  Are you kidding me? Queen Anne has become Step Ford West. I heard there are a lot of openings on the eastside… No wait. Seattle has become the eastside. How about we have regulations for baby jogger / strollers so people can actually walk on the sidewalk? What happen to this place. Yes of course your children will all start smoking and drinking. My wish would be that little Trevor and Gilliam realize that every store on the hill is not their personal jungle gym. Can you do something about that?

• 18 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:09 pm

  Thank you thank you……….. I love Seattle and am a native but geez oh Peet this place in some quarters has become EXACTLY what you stated. Look in the mirror and do something for your neighborhood and quit pointing fingers and for gosh sakes quit raising little spoiled brats that think they do anything and if you are in a coffee shop …let's use Bustle as an example…. How about watching your kid instead of shooting dirty looks at the poor person who almost trips over them because you think its your personal playland. Please wake up and quit acting like the world revolves around yourself and little Trevor. We need leaders not people who always think they are entitled!

• 19 name // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:11 pm

  “I'm opposed to the signage. It's garish.”

  Typical response from a Queen Anne housewife. Overly concerened with image. Ha.

  And the reason most people use “name” on disqus is because the registration process is a pain in the butt, it has nothing to do with anonymity, despite what your over inflated ego might tell you.

  Shouldn't you be at Yoga right n0w?

• 20 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:13 pm

  yes block the liquor license. You should seriously be ashamed of yourselfs. My gosh. What happen to my Seattle? Its like you guys want to live on fantasy island.

• 21 Peterson // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:22 pm

  If people think a sign that says “discount cigarettes” or “beer/wine” is going to corrupt their kids, they need to take a step back and rethink their parenting strategy. Jeebus.

  The person who mentioned liquor being sold at the wine store, Ken's, and bustle all within 3 blocks of this store has it right. This is no different.

• 22 Marinda // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:22 pm

  Those signs look incredibly low-rent. This is a pretty neighborhood. Those are some ugly signs.

• 23 anonymousresident // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:31 pm

  You people are RIDICULOUS. Kids are not going to be influenced by a store sign, they'll be influenced by what their parents do or don't do. And NINE PM?? OH NO! The horror! Jeezus criminy – is this UTAH or Seattle? C'mon….

• 24 MrsPeterson // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:49 pm

  It sounds to me like some parents no longer take responsibilty for raising their own children. Conveniently, this makes the community at fault when something goes wrong. Wake up. There is a good chance your teens and pre-teens will become curious about alcohol and cigarettes – even without the presence of this store. If you'd like to prevent them from making poor choices, start by educating them about the perils of substance abuse at home. Please don't blame the community (or a store owner) for tempting them. Do any of you remember what it was like when we grew up? When I or my fellow classmates got into trouble with alcohol, my parents enforced rules and taught us about healhty choices AT HOME. They did not show up at the town meeting in the hopes of closing down stores that sell such merchandise to adult customers.

• 25 name // Mar 4, 2010 at 5:56 pm

  Incidentally I just finished my run which includes passing by Ken's. Their current sign is an advertisement for cheap ($6 a bottle) wine.

  Friendly neighborhood market, hmm?

• 26 DeckerFamily // Mar 4, 2010 at 6:07 pm

  Dear Name,

  Ah, presumptions! Let me set you straight (although I did debate if I should even bother):

  1. I am not a wife.
  2. I live on Magnolia (though I have lived on QA for more than half my life – Coe and McClure alum!)
  3. I work full time.
  4. I wish I could be at yoga (not a proper noun that I'm aware of), but I have job. (Yes yes, I should be doing it, rather than being on here clearing things up with a troll, you're right!)
  5. You know you can type whatever you want to in that little “name” box, don'tcha? Even what your friends and family call you.

  The signs are obnoxious, no doubt. My point was more about the shopkeeper's choice to market the store as one where the primary wares are DISCOUNT CIGARETTES / WINE & BEER. Had they just made it about groceries, and sold those things anyway but not had the signage, I'd wager they wouldn't be getting a tongue-lashing now.

• 27 mel // Mar 4, 2010 at 6:23 pm

  that is some really bad signage
  am i being vain? sure. but i'm being honest.

  all this mock outrage is just a front for the fact that people really hate the look of this place (and rightfully so)

• 28 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm

  Melster, yes its bad signage but you are taking silly pills if you think that's the ONLY reason. Di you move here last week from Orange County or something.

• 29 Name // Mar 4, 2010 at 7:20 pm

  The “Queen Anne Moms & Dads Yahoo Group” referred to in the article is just a mail list. It is inaccurate to say that “group” “brought the issue up to the Queen Anne Community Council” – it was really just some exercised individuals. I'm on that mail list and resent being lumped in with those people and their attitudes . The discussion on that mail list made me embarrassed to live in this neighborhood.

• 30 travis6cs // Mar 4, 2010 at 8:25 pm

  I've got a solution for the aesthetically offended.
  Just change the font to Papyrus.

• 31 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  Name…. I was just informed by the writer that this blog is only of the highest journalistic quality. Please do not question Yahoo Group? LOL. Man I wish I could go to this meeting tonight. Tomorrow's headline. “Store shut before open due to bad signage and fear of Yahoo Group going to streets with 80.00 shovels used for garden!” As a graphic Designer I will let them in if they use Helvetica!

• 32 travis6cs // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:13 pm

  johnqa,
  Helvetica is just to crisp, to clean. I would have to say almost antiseptic.
  We don't want our street to look like a hospital ward.
  Don't you see that the earthy tone of Papyrus is the only real solution to this dilemma.

• 33 DeckerFamily // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:26 pm

  The meeting was last night.

• 34 johnqa // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:30 pm

  Very well played sir. I agree wholeheartedly!

• 35 GB // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:43 pm

  I agree with Mike. This country works like this: If you don't like the store, don't shop there. The owners have obviously considered the location and put up the money to open their business, hopefully they did some research. If they aren't able to market to the demographic in this neighborhood they will fail. If there is a market for this store and your fellow neighbors like buying stuff there then let it be . . . or move. As was already pointed out, they don't sell or advertise anything other than what Ken's or 7-11 already does. It would be a shame if blogs like this or the Queen Anne Community council had any say in the existence of this business.

• 36 suck_it // Mar 4, 2010 at 10:05 pm

  The store isn't going anywhere. It will be open shortly. All you cry babies lost. I can't wait to spend money there.

• 37 Name // Mar 4, 2010 at 10:28 pm

  I object to the store based purely on the look and type of store. I classify it together with the Pizza Hut on Mcgraw & Queen Anne Ave and the 711 on Queen Anne Ave. All three stores are undesireable for the hill and arguably go against the kind of retail presence we want in Queen Anne.

  However, since the location is zoned commerical, the owners have the right to lease the space to whomever they choose. On the other hand, you, as a Queen Anne resident, have the right to boycott the store. If enough local residents choose this course of action, the store will eventually be forced to close.

• 38 nycoug // Mar 4, 2010 at 10:59 pm

  I think instead of boycotting this store people should be embracing it. I for one would rather give my money to the local guy trying to make it in this economy than a corporate owned store. Shame shame! I wish them nothing but luck! Some welcome to the neighborhood committee you people are!

• 39 Robin Forman // Mar 4, 2010 at 11:26 pm

  Actually, per the owners who were at the QACC meeting last night, the MiniMart's expected to be open til 10pm weekdays, til 11pm Fri/Sat. Several neighbors in the area are working to prevent the store from getting the liquor license approved. If you have concerns/complaints, please direct them to the LCB Inspector:
  Allen Wambold, 360-664-9868, agw@liq.wa.gov. He is the license investigator assigned to 5 Corners. They should reference the liquor license application #406165. This information will also be posted on the door of the new business, for public comment period (which is short, so please act quickly). Please also email rf_ultra@yahoo.com to be added to our distro list (QA residents concerned about the noise/traffic/signage/inventory/customers this store might attract). Thanks!

• 40 a_marie // Mar 5, 2010 at 12:53 am

  I truly have a hard time grasping some of these comments.

  Personally ( meaning my own aesthetic tastes) the signage is kind of ugly.
  But then, it isn't my store. And I am not the one who is probably paying quite the pretty penny for the rent space.

  I am a QA resident AND a parent. However, I only have one more left at home ( a glorious teenager) who as far as I can tell, understands the world quite well; perhaps even better than some of the adult parents giving birth to kittens over this store!

  I do understand both sides of this coin. Some think that it may bring more “crime” into the neighborhood… but this poor store and it's owners are being shot for a crime they have yet to commit!
  And the 7-11 (thank goodness for this 7-11) hasn't produced any Dillinger's or Manson's as far as I have heard.
  The “unwanted element” these people seem to be worried about, hangs out in front of the church, the yoga place, and the quaint little coffee houses… not just 7-11, so that isn't really an issue is it. And honestly… as lovely as yoga and coffee are, if one more of these places open, I am seriously considering this neighborhood's sanity.

  I guess some people do see the elephant in this room, and have called it like they see it. I like aljoseattle's honest observation.
  I also have had a good chuckle over johnqa's passionate pleas for some reality sandwich.

  Honestly, your child is sheltered until you send him or her to Kindergarten. After that they belong to the world. If you haven't given them something good before that, continue to reinforce what you teach, and allow them to see the world for what it is, not what you wish it could be within the confines of your four walls… you are setting them up for failure and heartbreak.

  Children do not do drugs, start smoking or dabble in alcohol because of signage, advertisments, and even because others are doing it. They do those things because something is missing from within and around their foundation.

  Let this establishment prove itself. If it becomes a breeding ground for prostitution, drug dealing, and child exploitation… then we can all go in with our clubs and bloodhounds and close it's doors.
  Otherwise… have a coffee. Do some yoga and please… teach your child the truth in life.

• 41 Former_lawyer // Mar 5, 2010 at 1:15 am

  “Several neighbors in the area are working to prevent the store from getting the liquor license approved.”

  That's called tortious interference where I come from and it can blow up in your face real quick. I hope the neighbors are prepared to be sued by the shop owners. As far as I can tell, the shop owners have attempted to engage in lawful business in an area where very similar businesses already operate.

  The neighbors are unfairly (and possibly illegally) singleing out these businessmen and interfering with their endeavors.

  I hope the shop owners have secured counsel.

• 42 QARunner // Mar 5, 2010 at 1:24 am

  First I hear a 5 Corners Minimart is being opened in Queen Anne then I read Lisa Brown is trying to introduce a state income tax. This truly has been a disasterous day for the State of Washington.

• 43 GetReal // Mar 5, 2010 at 1:50 am

  Calm down everyone, please. The owner has a right to apply for a liquor license and the public has a right to object. In fact, that is why notice of application is to be publicly posted as a condition of the approval process.

• 44 98119 // Mar 5, 2010 at 3:53 am

  Thanks for the LCB inspector's contact information. I emailed Allen letting him know my various concerns. Increased noise, crime, decreased property values, potential loitering, public intoxication with Rodgers Park, et al.

• 45 name // Mar 5, 2010 at 4:02 am

  “potential loitering”

  You complained about something that doesn't yet exist in front of a store that has yet to even open?

  Congratulations sir! You are the weenie of the day!

• 46 Concerned Neighbor // Mar 5, 2010 at 5:02 am

  I believe 98119 voiced a concern. Even described it as being a potential concern. Which is the definition of something that doesn't yet exist. Not sure what value your response added to this blog. What is clear from reading this thread is you like to pass judgement.

• 47 Name // Mar 5, 2010 at 5:59 am

  I am outraged at what a bunch of racists you all are! Not the people who object to the store, but those of you who insist that cheap booze is going to appeal to non-whites!! Where on earth do you get off insinuating that?? Latinos are NOT a bunch of drunks! And all of you who just chuckle and say “oh yeah, the real reason, the elephant in the room – racism…” you are just tacitly agreeing. The people who will be buying the bulk of that cheap booze are white, like almost everyone up here on the Hill. (And then these drunk white boys wreck their Porsches going around corners – those guys weren't poor and non-white!) I don't care one bit about the mini-mart, but you can keep your backhanded concern about “them, ” 'cause we don't need it. And open your eyes next time you drive around the Hill, because even most of the labor is white. Not that you have noticed, evidently. I guess the white boys don't worry you enough to pay attention to.

• 48 Name // Mar 5, 2010 at 6:14 am

  Whoa, I attended the meeting last night, read this blog, and now I am really ashamed of myself. At first I simply questioned some signs on a new QA business, and before long I was preaching Economics 101, Police Academy, Dr Spock, America’s Most Wanted, and all that lies in-between. In fact in the end I concluded that I wanted to deny these new owners the very right my great grandparents honored as they made their way to America (Seattle) and built a small business that eventually helped put food on their table and me thru school. I’m looking in my mirror-what the heck happened to me?

  All of a sudden I feel like I and many of my neighbors are Broadmoor wannabes; Suburban envy perhaps. We have a young child too and after all I, like most of you, are concerned about safety, social equity and fairness, healthy choices, the ‘right’ messages, small business, local products and all the rest. And yes I question the need, as I question the need for the 4 other mini-marts just a few blocks from my QA home. But to suggest that they are the root cause for all our neighborhoods ills, both now and at some unknown future date may be a narrow, prejudiced and uninformed view.

  When I think about it, consider the rest of the world from Copenhagen to Rome, Hanoi to Rio, and almost every other city beyond our shores. No provincial alcoholic laws. No smoking bans. No hidden magazines and their kids are safer on their streets, kicking are butts in school, graduating with honors from our Harvard and every other US university, and in many cases leading our world. What was I thinking?

  Hmm, perhaps I should take a few moments instead and go meet our new neighbor and share ideas instead of condemn. Perhaps I can offer suggestions about how I might help inspire a mix of products instead of expect the worst. Perhaps I should ask them to consider reducing the lighting interferences. Afterall they agreed last night in 1 minute to not sell fortified liquor and completely change the signage. What more might they agree to consider? After all when I think about it, they aren’t really selling anything that I can’t get at Kens, or Met Market, Safeway, 7-11, or all the others. And I know that McDonalds and all the others always located near one another because it is good business to do so. Gee, who am I to prognosticate their doom and convince them to leave before they give it a go? That’s not Seattle. And I certainly never thought it was my QA where it has been our home for decades.

  Indeed I am ashamed. I really can’t believe that one bad sign grew into such a huge embarrassment for me and those in my community of elitist puritanical gate keepers. I’m taking a shower right now and heading over there to heal what should be an encouraging handshake and sincere thank you.

• 49 GetReal // Mar 5, 2010 at 6:22 am

  4 other minimarts on Queen Anne? Where are they located?

• 50 aljoseattle // Mar 5, 2010 at 7:05 am

  Ken’s market
  7.11 9 Nickerson St
  7-11 1607 Queen Anne Ave N
  Plaid Pantry 720 Taylor
  Ice Box Grocery 1903 10th Avenue West
  Manhattan Express 631 Queen Anne Ave N
  7-11 Firth Ave N. and Valley
  Metropolitan Market – Queen Anne Ave

  Just to name a few. Let's start a thursday night minimart walk. No kids adult only.

• 51 valerie // Mar 5, 2010 at 7:19 am

  Most of your crying is about the signage reading “Discount Cigarette, Beer & Wine”. If you went to the meeting, the owner said he'd remove it, yet you're still complaining. Turn up your hearing aids.

• 52 a_marie // Mar 5, 2010 at 1:56 pm

  Dear Name, I for one was not “chuckling” when I mentioned the “elephant in the room” and you have totally mislabled my elephant.
  Nowhere ever in my personal comment did I mention the elephant as being a “race” elephant. My elephant was an elitist elephant.
  So please do designate comments to their proper owners. I never imagined how “racist” an issue this seems to be for some really, until you completely went off on it. I am sure that may be an issue for some perhaps… but “race” never entered into MY comment.

  And if I agree with something, I shall say so. Everything I wanted to say about this, I did. So there was not one thing “silently implied” in my comment. I don't mince words.

  But… on a perhaps tacit note, it is so wonderful to see the rather quick turn around in your opinion. I like the play for reverse psych.

• 53 a_marie // Mar 5, 2010 at 2:51 pm

  Wow. This has really been blown up into this big race war, when really it seems that “most” of the problem was the signage for the storefront.

  Why does everything have to deteriorate into a race issue? It's the same with politics.
  You can't grill two steaks on the barbie anymore without a fight breaking out because everything is given a political connotation.

  Look, these store owners seem to be bending over backwards to be welcomed into the community. They want you to shop there, so Valerie is right, they are listening.
  Sorry, but most of the shop owners I have ever known would give you nothing but the back of their gesture.

  I don't think this is truly a race issue at all. We have multi-ethnic shop owners already in QA and we DO have multi-ethnic families in QA. It may be perhaps somewhat of a possessive mentality, even a bit of an elitist mentality mixed into this pot. But I believe “Name” has created this imaginary race disgust, and race war where none exists.

  Bottom line the signage is being corrected. If these owners were Vulcans or even Vampires, and they sold something I needed at a good price, then they are going to get my business. Especially if there is nothing else open. Which only 7-11 provides us this late quick pick me up service.

  I welcome them. And I hope they have good prices! And maybe an artist from the neighborhood could volunteer to work with them on some signage that wouldn't piss so many people off that they are ready to aim, fire and hit the foxholes… jeeeez.

• 54 GetReal // Mar 5, 2010 at 3:28 pm

  Just referring to the actual convenience stores, do you know how many of them sell malt liquor or fortified wine? Queen Anne is outside the alcohol impact zone, and stores that carry these products are magnets for the chronically inebriated.

• 55 aljoseattle // Mar 5, 2010 at 4:14 pm

  Thank you Robin Forman for posting contact information for the Washington State Liquor Control Board. I ask that all of you write to Allen suggesting that the established protocol of evaluating a license be followed and not to treat the issue subjectively. There are established rules for granting a license and it behooves all of us to follow them.

  Here is the contact information and an excerpt from Robin’s posting:

  Allen Wambold, 360-664-9868, agw@liq.wa.gov. He is the license investigator assigned to 5 Corners. They should reference the liquor license application #406165. This information will also be posted on the door of the new business

• 56 Julie Whitehorn // Mar 5, 2010 at 5:04 pm

  I live very near this store and have welcomed the owner to our neighborhood. He seems genuinely interested in adapting to the community and providing products that we can support and will be eager to buy. I want him to succeed. That said, I am also concerned that if granted a liquor license, neither the law nor his lease prevent the sales of malt liquor and fortified wine, common to mini marts. These are products that cater to chronic inebriates and are known to correlate to increased crime (issues my friends in the CD are also concerned about). The Helpline is located above this store, and serves many clients with addiction issues. It is naive to think that this store will have no impact on those living near it, and I will do all I can to ensure it is a positive one. The owner's idea to sell Asian groceries is fabulous. By the way, I live in on a modest income in a very modest house, am the grandchild of immigrants, love living in the city, and fit none of the nasty stereotypes being bandied about here. Neither do my neighbors, a racially and socio-economically mixed group. Many thanks to Robin Forman for posting the information about the Liquor Control Board .

• 57 derrickito // Mar 5, 2010 at 4:07 pm

  will they be selling corndogs and porn?
  fuck i hope so.

• 58 Joe G // Mar 5, 2010 at 4:20 pm

  Heh, this is an awesome parody website. Thanks for giving me a good Friday afternoon laugh. For your next bit, can you do something funny about PG-13 movies?

• 59 catotheyoungeryounger // Mar 5, 2010 at 10:31 pm

  It's not like he's advertising free dildos or butt plugs for anyone under 18 years of age.

• 60 bigyaz // Mar 5, 2010 at 10:37 pm

  I assume that those of you who object to advertisements for beer will never let your precious kiddies watch television.

• 61 meks // Mar 5, 2010 at 10:51 pm

  I totally agree. If they sell Old English, the Crips and Bloods come running. I think they have an iPhone app that alerts them about it. Queen Anne is JUST like the CD.

• 62 geel // Mar 5, 2010 at 11:02 pm

  You yuppies are the scourge of society!

• 63 Nick // Mar 5, 2010 at 11:08 pm

  Are you kidding me? A mini mart? How about you teach your kids that they are kids and are not allowed to drink or smoke. Problem solved. Take responsibility for your children and stop screwing with a small business owner trying to make a living. You people are awful.

• 64 embarassedforyou // Mar 6, 2010 at 12:04 am

  I don't see you complaining that you can't buy cheap discounted beer and wine at Trader Joe's down the street. Which also happens to be open 'til 9pm. Boycott Trader Joe's! Think of the property values – uh, I mean children!

  When you need that last minute cup of sour cream, egg or gallon of milk, or cheap bottle or red wine for your coq au vin dinner – you're going to LOVE this place.

  Any good business owner knows supply and demand. Nobody buying the Olde English? Let's not keep that in stock, eh? If they DO keep it in stock, maybe you don't know your neighbors so well as you think.

• 65 Raincoat Randy // Mar 6, 2010 at 1:42 am

  Nobody has addressed the real issue here. Will they carry “Fat-Packs” of discount porn?

• 66 Jon // Mar 6, 2010 at 2:34 am

  Hey jackass, have you noticed Ken's just three blocks down the street. There's a cooler at the back selling single bottles of beer, another cooler with dozens of six packs, 22s, single cans, malt liquors, etc. Right across is an aisle almost completely stocked with wine, not to mention the various sale wines throughout the store. They seem to do pretty good business, and aren't exactly a new presence on the hill. Ken's is right freaking next to a school – there's a playground across the street. Ken's is open later than the new mini-mart, too. Maybe you should redirect your ire.

  Or, a better option, get over your embarrassing objection to a convenience store. There is alcohol available all over the hill, in a variety of styles and prices. People like to buy that stuff. It's nothing new.

• 67 jason // Mar 6, 2010 at 6:29 am

  why are you opposed to the signage? per your comment above, you don't even live on queen anne; you live in magnolia!

  and i'm sorry, beer, wine and cigarettes make people uncomfortable? we're not talking tampons, condoms and suppositories here. these are things that i'm sure a good majority of adults indulged in just tonight. maybe you have a bit of repression that makes those topics uncomfortable? don't take that out on a shop keeper.

  and how about you put YOUR name on here? first and last. lead by example.

• 68 Zardoz // Mar 6, 2010 at 6:41 am

  Oh, you… people. Drop your sense of collective entitlement for a moment and take a long, cool appraising look at yourselves. Do.

  If you aren't deeply ashamed right about, oh – say… yesterday… then you ought to be. Tsk-tsk.

• 69 tussinextreme // Mar 6, 2010 at 7:59 am

  wow! y'all are hi-LARE-ious!
  i just read ALL your posts, agree with the most recent ones, and applaud anyone who went to the trouble of ENGAGING with your new neighbor. maybe if you did that earlier, you could have been involved in the wording and colors of this “garish' signage. (garish? really? couldn't you apply that to lawn ornaments, house colors, your childrens' clothing, i mean – isn't everything “garish” to someone?)
  chill the F*** out people!
  who is going to drive to the top of QA to buy malt liquor? do you know ANYthing about the way this city works?
  it's a mini-mart!
  you'll use it!
  you'll make suggestions, and they will listen and carry more of what you want, or they won't, and they will fail.
  maybe the colors are “good luck for business” colors, in their mind. so what? there's buses that drive by many times an hour on this street. with ads for AIDS PREVENTION! or 12 step programs!
  and 9pm! wtf? 9:00PM is a respectable time.
  i hire your children – and turn many more down, and it's this smothering protective attitude that makes most of them unfit for entry level retail.
  find something REAL to get upset about. please.

• 70 Joyce // Mar 6, 2010 at 9:02 am

  OK, people, calm down. Here's some basic info:
  *the store is located in a very residential area, on a tiny block surrounded by a couple offices, the QA Helpline, and a hardware store that closes at 5 pm. There is little commercial activity or parking (no lot), and the people who live in the area are concerned about traffic, customers/delivery trucks blocking the small alley, later hours and the activity/noise it creates, etc.
  *the MiniMart will be open til 10/11pm (at least – per the owners)
  *the original sign proclaimed only “Cheap Cigarettes and Beer!” – that was the concern, that this would be the major focus of the store. They have since taken down that sign, but traditionally this is how MiniMarts make their profits.Kens (one example) carries a large variety of products, cigarettes and alcohol are not the main focus of the store, tho certainly available, as they are at Safeway, etc. If the original sign had proclaimed “groceries and newspapers” (or something less controversial), this might not have blown up into such an issue.
  *Neighbors are not worried about “exposing” their children to the signage or the inventory: they are concerned about a store that intends (or perhaps intended) to attract customers for mostly “cheap cigarettes and beer”. Again, its not a commercial area , such as Kens located several blocks away w/ MAcrina, Bustle, Malena's, and a number of other retail businesses (all close early tho).
  *people do in fact travel from areas where high-alcohol content beverages not sold (CapHill, parts of downtown) to Upper QA, where it IS sold, eg 7-11 on QA Hill. This does create problems and lead to increased criminal activity (these are facts, not speculation).
  *People have a right to be concerned about how their neighborhood grows and develops; that is not a “yuppie” concern and not sure why all the vitrol on this site. If you are not concerned, thats fine, but no need to severely trash people who are.

• 71 Number One // Mar 6, 2010 at 9:59 am

  Its funny how all the focus goes to the signs that mention smokes and booze, yet no one has yet pointed out that the sign right next to the door says GROCERY. Especially @ 16 who states
  “When I think Ken’s, I think “neighborhood grocery store I’ve been going to for 20 years” When I think 5 Corners Market, I think “DISCOUNT CIGARETTES! WINE! BEER!” The grocery part doesn’t even enter my mind, because it seems almost like an afterthought for them.”

  One track mind, maybe?

• 72 Number One // Mar 6, 2010 at 10:03 am

  Its funny how all the focus goes to the signs that mention smokes and booze, yet no one has yet pointed out that the sign right next to the door says GROCERY. Especially @ 16 who states
  “When I think Ken’s, I think “neighborhood grocery store I’ve been going to for 20 years” When I think 5 Corners Market, I think “DISCOUNT CIGARETTES! WINE! BEER!” The grocery part doesn’t even enter my mind, because it seems almost like an afterthought for them.”

  One track mind, maybe?

• 73 Gary SF // Mar 6, 2010 at 5:01 pm

  Uh…your kids see commercials on TV that discuss getting medical help if an erection lasts more than 4 hours and you are concerned about a store where they'll be able to buy candy? Do you think that they will even notice that there is beer there? Not unless they are child alcoholics.

• 74 aljoseattle // Mar 6, 2010 at 6:29 pm

  I do believe it is a yuppie thing. People who think they are more than they are, believe their kids have rights above others, can’t handle diversity and may have ethic prejudice.

  For those that say it is not commercial at 5 corners – How can you say that! Look at the businesses at that corner and look at the zoning. What is Kens? It is a convenience store a couple blocks away. Or are we now down to micro zones of commerce? Ken’s is ok but not this store.

  At one time there were neighborhood stores on Queen Anne. When you look at some of the homes here they were neighborhood stores. It is not a new subject. Yeah, parking is a problem because where do you park your underwater BMW. You wouldn’t walk or ride a bike to the store. God Forbid you would let your kids ride to the store. These young princes and princess are just too precious and important to mankind. If they are so blessed how come none of us see it? I guess I need to recalibrate my blessed kid identifier to recognize those hogging the sidewalk, standing in front of doors, or crossing the street like royalty as those that are the secret society of “10s.” If they say hello, excuse me or carry on a conversation other than about themselves these are action indicators that they actually aren’t blessed like their parents. “Poor things they are not up to par with the others.” Oh, I know, you have something we don’t and that is a gift. If only others couldn’t see it. But wait, that is part of your magic. If others saw it they would not get it. Just listen to me and I will tell you. “Out of my way knave!” No, you just live in your own little micro system. Move away from – “it is all about me, for sure.” Get some other life experiences – they’re fun.

  Joyce makes an interesting statement – *people do in fact travel from areas where high-alcohol content beverages not sold (CapHill, parts of downtown) to Upper QA, where it IS sold, eg 7-11 on QA Hill. This does create problems and lead to increased criminal activity (these are facts, not speculation).

  I would like to know more about people traveling to QA and the increased criminal activity. This seems to me to be a foundation point to work from. Maybe we have something to work together for a solution. None of us want crime.

  Right now we just have brickbats. We’re lined up with nothing but brickbats to throw.

  Oh boy. Ok, so here we go. I for one don’t give a rat’s *** if your kids are corrupted by discount signs at a store that stays open in the evening, sells cigarettes, sells individual beers, take deliveries that may offend their eyes, sell items other than whole grain organic certified bread, is close to a school and doesn’t have parking (I added parking so Kens could stay the course as is). Your kids are important to you and as members of the human race to me. If those things listed above corrupt your kids they aren’t really the kids you think they are. (Also, don’t forget life at home has something to do with kids) You may want to expand your micros system to a broader universe. It works, we learn and grow from others.

  We have had posts with the operating hours all over the ball park.
  We aren’t sure about what the plans are for the alcohol sales
  We don’t know what demographic they are targeting
  We are unsure what the long term plan is for the signage
  We haven’t been properly introduced to the owners.

  What about a follow up story. The initial story was a one-sided statement. “ Hey look here, some are concerned, aren’t you?” Lets see some actual follow-up by the author and this blog. That would make a good story. I think we are ready for some quality and substance.

• 75 DeckerFamily // Mar 6, 2010 at 6:43 pm

  Dear Jason,

  I moved to QA in 1984. I graduated from Coe Elementary and McClure Middle School. My kids have either been through, or are at, Hay, Coe and McClure. My office is on QA. I shop on QA. I have a right to an opinion regarding businesses and their signage as QA is still my neighborhood, despite moving to Magnolia all of 5 months ago.

  In my previous posts of too-many-words (it is my curse), I commented that the signs loudly proclaiming discount cigarettes / beer / wine are what triggered this brouhaha and that their marketing decision backfired on them.

  I don't have any particular issue with a family-friendly mini-mart on that corner, and agree that it will either thrive or fail. And, for the record, I hope they thrive, garnering support from the neighborhood because they turn out to be an asset to the community. It's unfortunate that they're getting off on the wrong foot and I hope they prove everyone wrong.

  With yet another wordy post,
  Kelly Decker

• 76 DeckerFamily // Mar 6, 2010 at 7:01 pm

  The first 3/4 of your message was tl;dr for me, but I second the request for a follow-up story.

• 77 DeckerFamily // Mar 6, 2010 at 7:25 pm

  Who cares if they sell discount beer and cigarettes?

  All I care about is whether they sell Anal Lube.

• 78 DeckerFamily // Mar 6, 2010 at 7:45 pm

  If only they would make a big sign and put it in their window …

• 79 QueenAnneView // Mar 7, 2010 at 5:33 am

  The follow-up is in progress. Thanks for reading.

• 80 QueenAnneView // Mar 7, 2010 at 6:18 am

  Dear readers,

  Thank you for reading and having so much to say about this issue! This site and the forums are meant to serve as a medium for community members to discuss neighborhood issues. However, while opinions should be shared here, it is important to note that this should be done respectfully.

  Over the past few days I have seen several comments that use obscenity and inappropriate language that is not necessary to furthering any argument, and in fact hinders the progress I believe can be made through discussions here. If you have any questions as to what is and is not appropriate commenting etiquette for this site, please refer you to the forum rules (linked below), which apply to commenting on stories as well.

  http://www.queenanneview.com/forum/topic.php?id=2

  For those of you who are eager for a follow-up story, don’t worry, one is on the way! I have spent the days since Wednesday’s meeting contacting local business owners, residents, attendees of the meeting, and the owner of the mini mart, Steve, who I spoke to in person today, gathering information for a comprehensive and balanced follow-up piece to this original notice (which was posted for the sole purpose of notifying the neighborhood of the issue and the meeting which was to be held later that night).

  QueenAnneView is my job and I take it very seriously. As a journalist, I care about my own professional integrity and the service I strive to provide for this neighborhood very much. Therefore, please rest assured that I do not take this job lightly, and will always work to answer your questions and cover issues of importance to you. If you ever feel something has been under-covered, or has flown under the radar, simply zip me an email at tips@queenanneview.com, and I will do my best to follow-up on it.

  That being said, thank you all, again, for your loyal readership and engagement. Going along with my above statement concerning commenting etiquette on this site, please remember to be conscientious readers. It's important to remember that behind the computer screen, we're all talking to other people–-usually our neighbors–and should treat each other as such. Respect opinions. By all means disagree, but when you do, do so gracefully. And in the end, if you have a complaint about a neighborhood issue or how it is handled on this site, please voice your concerns with courtesy. Like I said before, we all share this community and owe it to each other to be as civil and respectful to one another as possible.

  Thank you.

  Thea Chard
  Editor | QueenAnneView
  tips@queenanneview.com

• 81 ValGarfield // Mar 7, 2010 at 5:13 pm

  There is a petition to sign that is being emailed with a link to the petition page. Here are the reasons given in the petition for objecting to the liquor license. This seems to be some arguments here but many weak ones IMHO. It seems to me this is a petition of people trying to circumvent the regulations. I believe the liquor control board should apply the regulations as written and apply this vigilante group petition in accordance with established protocols. I have to say I see this as a group of people wanting to circumvent codes and regulations for their own interests.

  The details of the petition are as follows:
  We the undersigned ask the Washington State Liquor Control Board to reject the application for 5 Corners Mini Mart at 309 W. McGraw Street (application #406165) because:
  * The store is adjacent to school bus stops and within 500 feet of a preschool (Alcuin on Crockett)
  * The proposed hours (to 11 pm on Friday and Saturday) do not complement a residential neighborhood
  * There is no parking provided for customers or delivery vehicles in an already congested area
  * Sales of alcohol are statistically proven to correlate with near-by violent crime (http://bit.ly/boozecrime)
  * Queen Anne is already saturated with opportunities to buy alcohol at all hours
  * The store is immediately adjacent to Queen Anne Helpline, which serves many clients with addiction issues
  * While the owner has stated he will not sell fortified wine or beer, there is nothing enforceable to prevent him from doing so.

• 82 juliewhitehorn // Mar 7, 2010 at 5:40 pm

  Actually, ValGarfield, this is what democracy looks like. The petition does not “circumvent the regulations,” it honors them, by commenting during the comment period prescribed by the law, which exists for this purpose. The Liquor Board invites personal emails and petitions by neighbors. It is the Board's responsibility to interpret the law and how it applies, not you or me or the store owner.

  Government exists to balance the rights of individuals with society. A vigilante is someone who uses extra-judicial (non-approved means) to carry out their own agenda. Citizens who use legal means cannot be vigilantes. (I wish they still taught this stuff in our schools.)

  Below is the URL of the petition. It includes actual names, something I suggest for commenters on this blog. Aren't we all in this neighborhood together?

  http://www.PetitionOnline.com/QAsafety/petition...

• 83 ValGarfield // Mar 7, 2010 at 6:07 pm

  Juliewhitehorn. Sorry you misread the term vigilante. (I wish they taught this stuff in our schools). The colloquial use of vigilante is a term for someone outside the law. But of course that is not appropriate here. You as we all recognize are acting as a watchmen. So your interpretation of vigilante is incorrect. The colloquial use could not apply to your endeavors. So perhaps you should understand the term is being used as intended -as watchmen. Like I said I wish they taught these things in school.

  I guess we all need to recognize the true meanings of a person’s actions. I can imagine how the storekeeper feels maligned also.

• 84 jdb // Mar 7, 2010 at 6:16 pm

  Actually, the etymology of the word is from “watchmen”, but the use that you describe as “colloquial” is indeed the correct use for our culture:

  Dictionary.com: “any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime. “

  Merriam-webster.com: “a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate)”

  wikipedia: “someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses, or participates in a group which metes out extrajudicial punishment to such a person.”

  American Heritage dictionary: “One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands”

  Now, the word “vigilant” does indeed have broader meaning. Perhaps that's what was meant. But “vigilante” has a very specific meaning and implication.

  (No opinion on the subject at hand, but wanted to chime in on word usage. Hope that helps the discussion.

• 85 ValGarfield // Mar 7, 2010 at 6:42 pm

  Sorry for my misuse of vigilante . Subsititue “watchmen” Allow me this. IMHO some of your petiton reasons are weak and make me feel you are overreaching. Unfortunately, I believe my post has just casued you to dig your heels in.

• 86 Sundaymorning // Mar 7, 2010 at 7:00 pm

  Is the author of this blog now a de facto supporter of the neighbors attempting to block the license?

  Circulating their petition is hardly impartial reporting. I demand that you remove the petition and its link. I further demand that you make public the data surrounding these posts- ie how many unique visits have you documented, how many of the “individual” posts actually originate from the same IP, etc.

  Otherwise, I smell a rat.

• 87 juliewhitehorn // Mar 7, 2010 at 7:50 pm

  The blog owners are not circulating anything, they simple provide a public comments section, where ideas (for better or worse) get aired. Do you not see the irony in making accusations and demanding data under a pseudonym? If you truly object to your neighbors using a democratic process approved by the law, have the decency to sign your name and state your reasons why.

• 88 Name // Mar 7, 2010 at 8:53 pm

  Wow. Now they're deleting responses in support of the market that were published on the petition.

  You people will be embarassed when the LCB getrs a copy from me before you adulterated it.

• 89 michaeltasch // Mar 7, 2010 at 9:39 pm

  Name,
  I deleted your signature from the petition because you included a rant in the comment section that lobbied in favor of the Liquor Control Board approving the application, in direct opposition to the stated purpose of the petition. You also made other logically fallacious and/or inflammatory statements.

  I'll try to be as simple as possible. Our petition is not an open platform for you to undermine our arguments and efforts. It is not a forum for debate. You are perfectly welcome to make your own petition and work to convince people of your viewpoint.

• 90 wedeservetoknow // Mar 7, 2010 at 11:17 pm

  Is it true that the main thrust of the opposition is becasuse the business is minority owned?

  As a fellow minority I want it known that this DOES NOT make me feel welcome in Queen Anne.

  I hope the Liquor Control Board is made aware of this forum.

• 91 michaeltasch // Mar 7, 2010 at 11:58 pm

  This comment is PROFOUNDLY offensive and utterly inaccurate. I can only assume your intent is malicious, and as such deserves to be deleted.

  The tone and wording of your post is VERY similar to the comment on the petition, claimed by “Name” immediately below, that I deleted, and as such I suspect that you are the same person using a different name – sock puppetry it's called and it's an ethical no-no on the web.

  Regardless of who you are, you are completely wrong – NOTHING anyone has said in opposition to the Minimart and it's proposed business plan, as far as I am aware, has had anything to do with the owner of the store personally, and certainly nothing to do with his Korean heritage.

  Opposition to a store at that site selling discount cigarettes and inexpensive beer and wine – the business plan explicitly stated by the proprietor at the QA Council meeting on Wendesday – derives from concerns about crime that is engendered by such stores (a sociological fact), about the negative impact of the store on neighboring businesses and homeowners (made very poignantly at the QACC meeting by the owner of the Edward Jones franchise immediately next to the Minimart site, as well as many others), and about the effects on traffic and parking and safety of a store likely to have many people coming late into the evening.

  If your intent is not simply to inflame and misinform, as it appears, then you should really educate yourself prior to engaging in bomb throwing.

• 92 GB // Mar 8, 2010 at 6:01 pm

  If someone drafts a competing petition I will sign it, along with ~90% of my neighbors. Hopefully the LCB recognizes that those signing the original petition are not a representative cross-section of Queen Anne residents.

• 93 thisisseriouslydumb // Mar 8, 2010 at 6:30 pm

  “mom's and dad's” yahoo group!? they don't want their kids to see a place that sells beer…….. really? what a bunch of pussies. wouldn't want their children to grow up with a sense of reality…. hope there's no black kids in their schools either.. they will prolly get removed after one PTA meeting.

• 94 seattlewhite // Mar 8, 2010 at 7:22 pm

  I really hope that all the kids in this neighborhood all start a really horrible drug addiction when they hit high school.

  Parents:”I cant believe your smoking cigarrettes and drinking beer! what on earth would possess you to do this?”

  Kid:”It was those awful minorities down the street with their discount cigarrettes and cheap beer. If they closed down at 6pm like the rest, I wouldn't have sucked that strangers dick behind the dumpster for twenty bucks, wipe said strangers cum on that sweater you bought me, huff some vcr cleaner, and then purchase some beer and cheap smokes. It has nothing to do at all with the fact that you have sheltered me most of my life, or that your way of showing me love is buying me a new apple product, it has to do with those stinky ass minorities and their store of filth.”

• 95 seattlewhite // Mar 8, 2010 at 7:22 pm

  I really hope that all the kids in this neighborhood all start a really horrible drug addiction when they hit high school.

  Parents:”I cant believe your smoking cigarrettes and drinking beer! what on earth would possess you to do this?”

  Kid:”It was those awful minorities down the street with their discount cigarrettes and cheap beer. If they closed down at 6pm like the rest, I wouldn't have sucked that strangers dick behind the dumpster for twenty bucks, wipe said strangers cum on that sweater you bought me, huff some vcr cleaner, and then purchase some beer and cheap smokes. It has nothing to do at all with the fact that you have sheltered me most of my life, or that your way of showing me love is buying me a new apple product, it has to do with those stinky ass minorities and their store of filth.”

• 96 seattlewhite // Mar 8, 2010 at 7:22 pm

  I really hope that all the kids in this neighborhood all start a really horrible drug addiction when they hit high school.

  Parents:”I cant believe your smoking cigarrettes and drinking beer! what on earth would possess you to do this?”

  Kid:”It was those awful minorities down the street with their discount cigarrettes and cheap beer. If they closed down at 6pm like the rest, I wouldn't have sucked that strangers dick behind the dumpster for twenty bucks, wipe said strangers cum on that sweater you bought me, huff some vcr cleaner, and then purchase some beer and cheap smokes. It has nothing to do at all with the fact that you have sheltered me most of my life, or that your way of showing me love is buying me a new apple product, it has to do with those stinky ass minorities and their store of filth.”

• 97 Maria Sanchez // Mar 9, 2010 at 12:00 am

  Ugh. How absolutely disgusting this petition is. How disgusting this whole ISSUE is. Yet another reason why I despise living on QA. The snobby Taliban explosion that has hit this hill over the last decade absolutely drives me NUTS.

  NOTE TO FAMILIES: NOT EVERYONE IN THE CITY WANTS **EVERY ASPECT** OF LIVING IN THE CITY TO BE “FAMILY FRIENDLY” – JUST FOR YOU!!!

• 98 Maria Sanchez // Mar 9, 2010 at 12:02 am

  Completely agree with you, ValGarfield.

• 99 name // Mar 9, 2010 at 1:49 am

  Check this out- One of the petition's main proponents is Julie Whitehorn- managing director of the QA farmer's Market.

  Three days ago she applied for a liquor license for the market…. that sits just a few feet from McClure Middle School.

  So which is it Julie, are beer and wine sales OK adjacent to schools, or should they be prohibited? You know you can't have it both ways, right?

  Her hypocrisy is mind boggling. I'm actually gobsmacked at the lie she must have been living the last week. So, on some desk at the LCB sit two pieces of paper:
  - one, a petition from Julie demanding that Mini mart's LL application be denied because of its proximity to a school
  - and another piece of paper requesting a Liquor License for sales within 15 feet of a school.

  SHAME ON YOU JULIE WHITEHORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• 100 juliewhitehorn // Mar 9, 2010 at 2:04 am

  Dear nameless accusor,
  Yes, I signed the petition, as I have read the data on alcohol sales at convenience stores and am concerned about the potential impact on public safety in our neighborhood.

  SIr or madam, if you can't tell the difference between sales of wine at a 4-hour summer farmers market and a minimart, I'm afraid I can't help you.

  As I've said before, I like Mr. Park and want his store to be a success. I will be shopping there soon and will encourage all my neighbors to do so.

  If you object to wine sales at the Queen Anne Farmers Market for ANY reason, I encourage you to contact the Liquor Control Board. That is your right and privilege. However, you will be required to use your actual name.

• 101 ValGarfield // Mar 9, 2010 at 2:43 am

  I think you could accomplish the same thing by sending emails or calling.

  This information is from another post.

  Allen Wambold, 360-664-9868, agw@liq.wa.gov. He is the license investigator assigned to 5 Corners. They should reference the liquor license application #406165. This information will also be posted on the door of the new business

• 102 longtimeqaresident // Mar 9, 2010 at 4:02 am

  It appears that Mrs. Whitehorn’s problem with 5 Corner Mini Mart’s liquor license application relates to it being a convenience store. However, the article repeatedly referenced by both Mrs. Whitehorn and Mr. Tasch states that liquor licenses to pour alcohol (like those granted to bars, restaurants and sought by QA Farmers Market) also result in “statistically significant” increases in assaults in the nearby neighborhood. (http://bit.ly/boozecrime).

• 103 name // Mar 9, 2010 at 4:13 am

  “SIr [sic] or madam, if you can't tell the difference between sales of wine at a 4-hour summer farmers market and a minimart, I'm afraid I can't help you.”

  Thank you. I'd love for you to attempt an explanation, though. I'm especially intrigued as you imply the difference is so clear and obvious.

  Just what is the diffrence Mrs. Whitehorn?

• 104 juliewhitehorn // Mar 9, 2010 at 4:22 am

  Dear “Longtimeqaresident” (why will you not use your names…do you lack the courage of your convictions?). The purpose of our nonprofit, volunteer-managed farmers market is to promote Washington farms and food and to create community. That is very different from a typical minimart, and it is disengenous to pretend otherwise. A simple test: which do YOU think gets challenged more frequently, farmers markets or minimarts? Now why do think that is so? You are welcome to protest the market's application to sell local wine (bottles only, the law doesn't allow pouring) AND to research our compliance history (e.g., sales to underage customers). I will no longer answer anonymous accusations.

• 105 longtimeqaresident // Mar 9, 2010 at 5:02 am

  Dear Mrs. Whitehorn,

  I am disappointed to hear your implication that the 5 Corner Mini Mart will have a “compliance” problem with “sales to underage customers.” Just leave the poor man alone. (For clarification, I support your liquor license, as well as a license for 5 Corner Mini Mart. )

• 106 ValGarfield // Mar 9, 2010 at 5:25 am

  Julie, I believe you have a conflict of interest. You have promoted a petition contesting a liquor license (you posted the link and signed) and you have applied for the same type of license, for your purposes, at the same time.

  You have passion for your views. I don’t agree with some and some I do. I would declare your interest and people can then take your views in perspective. It does detract from your arguments when we find out you espouse something and then find out you are approaching a similar situation with a 180 degree different approach. People then say what gives?

  I believe that the way to deal with this ‘Perry Mason” moment is to declare your conflicts. Then we can discuss the issues and listen more openly. I believe you feel a minimart close to your home is detrimental to you and your neighbors. I believe you feel the farmers market is not in competition, so you are thrashing a competitor, and alcohol at a farmers market does not represent the same risk to you and your neighbors.

• 107 michaeltasch // Mar 9, 2010 at 6:10 am

  I'm the author of the petition, and I have no association with the farmers' market whatsoever, aside from being a customer.

  I learned of Julie Whitehorn's existence only a few days ago – never knew her before, had no idea that is was she that was so instrumental behind the farmers' market being established.

  The petition grew out of concerns – spontaneous, immediate, shared – that brought together people on my street, around the corner from the Minimart, talking together on the sidewalk, chatting while dog-walking, talking up issues while doing yardwork. It was organic and grassroots. To a person there was opposition to this establishment, and that grew directly out of the initial signage (on possible ongoing business plan) advertising “discount cigarettes” and “beer and wine.”

  The implications of such a business plan – aiming to profit by undercutting prices compared to other neighborhood stores for tobacco and alcohol, as explicitly laid out by the proprietor at the QACC meeting last week – are inescapable, and include exacerbation of chronic inebriation and the association with violent crime. This is the crux of the motivation for opposing the liquor license for the Minimart, though there are other valid and compelling points of opposition that have been voiced.

  Now, Julie Whitehorn is being personally trashed in this thread, and it's disgusting and wrong. (Most of the accusations seem to come from anonymous posts that bear striking resemblance to each other – and thus raise the concern for both sock-puppetry and cowardice) If you want to debate the merits, by all means do so. However, playing dumb and pretending that buying a bottle of organic local wine at the farmers' market is somehow synonymous with getting a bottle of malt liquor at the Minimart because it is the closest source for high alcohol beverages outside the city-defined “alcohol impact areas”is either imbecilic or disingenuous.

• 108 michaeltasch // Mar 9, 2010 at 7:08 am

  Oh boy.
  Indeed, Pridemore and Grubesic's work associated violent crime with both “drink in” and 'take out” establishments. You can read, and that's great, but you should try reading for meaning – it's the next step, you know.

  The magnitude of the effect on violent crime was much larger with “take out,” retail stores – in the very first sentence of the press release was this:

  “the highest assault rates are associated with carry-out sites selling alcohol for off-premise consumption”

  BINGO!

  “Using different suites of spatial regression models, the researchers found that adding one off-premise alcohol sales site per square mile would create 2.3 more simple assaults and 0.6 more aggravated assaults per square mile.”

  That would be almost THREE VIOLENT FELONIES per square mile per year for a single store. Are you ready to accept this for our neighborhood?

  And they also said this:

  “Perhaps just as importantly, alcohol outlets provide a greater number of potentially deviant places. Convenience stores licensed to sell alcohol may be especially troublesome in this regard, as they often serve not only as sources of alcohol but also as local gathering places with little formal social control.”

  Precisely the concerns eloquently voiced by numerous residents and business owners at the QACC meeting last week, especially those speaking about their experiences as business owners on QA Ave dealing with chronic inebriants and the effect of alcohol sales at the 7-11.

  Moreover, you seem also to be suffering under the same logical fallacy that Ellen Monrad was at the QACC meeting the other night: to wit, that since we already had both bars/restaurants and retail “take out” sources of alcohol in the neighborhood, that the addition of another would be without discernible effect. Well, um, WRONG. The effects are cumulative, and each source of alcohol independently adds to the effect. That means, when we as a community are evaluating the pros and cons of a liquor license application (and the comment period is explicitly and invitation for the community to support or oppose a proposed source of alcohol sales), one critical factor is the likely, predictable impact on violent crime in the community.

• 109 name // Mar 9, 2010 at 3:55 pm

  “However, playing dumb and pretending that buying a bottle of organic local wine at the farmers' market is somehow synonymous with getting a bottle of malt liquor at the Minimart because it is the closest source for high alcohol beverages outside the city-defined “alcohol impact areas”is either imbecilic or disingenuous.”

  Mr Pack gave his word ( publically and in front of a large neighbourhood meetimng) that he would not sell “malt liquor.” Are you calling him a liar?

  Why have you intentionally disregarded this fact time and time agan?

  Mr. Pack, I urge you to consult with an attorney. You have a solid basis for a suit on several grounds, now including defamation by Mr. Taush.

• 110 GB // Mar 9, 2010 at 8:41 pm

  Good to know. Thanks

• 111 Ravenman // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:22 am

  It's always interesting to me when people argue for something by pointing out other examples that one could be protesting too. It seems to me that since we do have Ken's and Bustle (and freaking 7-11 5 blocks away) that that further supports the argument that we don't need yet another! (I'm not even going to respond to the specious comments on racism. Give me a break!)

• 112 Ravenman // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:38 am

  Any possibility we can all limit our points to the issue at hand regarding the Mini-mart itself, and forgo fallacious arguments such as ad hominem attacks and red herrings?

• 113 QA resident // Mar 16, 2010 at 2:08 am

  Who on the string isn't passing judgment?

• 114 QA resident with child // Mar 16, 2010 at 6:36 pm

  This is fearmongering at its best

• 115 gvanderleun // Mar 23, 2010 at 9:16 pm

  Mr. Tasch, You and your friends and all your ilk are revolting elite classists and I am ashamed you are residing in my neighborhood.

• 116 gvanderleun // Mar 23, 2010 at 9:20 pm

  Whitehorn, give me a break. I shop at your market and it's fine and all that. But the purpose of it, among others, is to give snobbish white folks of Queen Anne to pay more than they otherswise would for the latest fad in food. Let's not kid each other. It's a Snoburbia gig and nothing else.

  Under age? I can't wait for all the carding that will go on at your pathetic little street market…. which I note takes over the street itself for even more inconvenience.

• 117 gvanderleun // Mar 23, 2010 at 9:23 pm

  “. I can only assume your intent is malicious, and as such deserves to be deleted.”

  Translation: This comment makes me look like what I am and deserves to be silenced lest others learn too.

  Given your propensity for rampant classism I don't think you are qualified to give anyone a lesson in ethics.

• 118 Name // Mar 24, 2010 at 4:27 am

  As this was my first post on this topic, I haven't the foggiest notion what you are talking about with your “reverse psych” comment. You do realize that anyone who doesn't bother to fill in their name is called “name,” right? And that you can see what comments have been made by any given email account, even if the alias changes?

  I find it interesting that your post assumes that I was responding in particular to yours. It is clear from your use of a photo of yourself that you are in your own little world here on the blogs, but perhaps you should wake up and read the entire comment thread. If my response was to your post, it would be indented beneath it, like this one.

  How lovely that you looked up “tacit” so you could define it. Sadly, you still couldn't use it properly in a sentence. You may or may not mince words, but you do mangle them.

  Since you need help with your words and phrases, let me clue you in about “elephant in the room.” This refers to something everyone can see, but no one talks about. Since both sides of this issue are discussing elitism, it is not an elephant. People may or may not be correct in their accusations or denials, but they are addressing that aspect of the issue. Racism was not part of the discussion initially, but rather an accusation made by some “pro-mart” posters below. As the “anti-mart” folks were not listing racism as one of their reasons for opposing the mart, or addressing racism at all, one can see how perhaps racism could be considered an “elephant.” As it happens, I gave you credit for a command of the language that you do not possess, and may have “mislabeled [your] elephant.” My apologies – won't make that mistake again.

  When a number of posters write things to the effect of “anti-mart” people are racist because they don't want non-whites coming to the mart for its cheap booze, and then other posters agree, those people are explicitly agreeing with the notion that the “anti's” are racist, and tacitly agreeing with the idea that non-whites are more likely to be drawn to cheap, fortified beer. THAT is what I find so repugnant – racism that it is out in the open, and yet…unseen.

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